chicken and i had a brief talk.

ok.. i twitted him about a phrase... and it was meant as a tease, but may have seemed like i was bracing him.


again.. no way do i think you're homophobic in any way shape or form, chicken. ok?


gay
ghey
ghay
homosexual

used to label something as useless, or stupid or something "not liked"

any one of those words or phrases can be NOT pejorative in context.

that context is when the person using them has paid their dues. [example: i don't get to call my pals "nigger". i haven't paid any "nigger" dues, and it would be offensive. people, who among themselves have paid those dues, own that word.


many of you know that i'm as bi as they come. my love interest is male, but i didn't fall for him because of his dick, it was his mind and heart that snared me. i've had many more women lovers than men, and until she was 12, my daughter figured i was all dyke.

when i'm with my gay friends, and one of them rolls their eyes at another and says "that's SO gay!", it might be a fashion or behavioural criticism, but it's affectionate and ... everyone is on the same page. THEY own that word.]

here, and almost anywhere online, using gay or any of the devious little spelling tricks (devised to get past censors in online gaming) comes across as pejorative. it feels creepy, and gives the site a subtle .. or not so subtle message that it's not a place where being gay is a good or welcome thing.

in the "real world", among like-minded friends what are all either GLBT or GLBT-friendly, when you all have the same cues, can look each other in the eye, and know that you're accepted and respected, teasing each other with "that's so gay" works just fine.

here online, without those cues it's too easy to misunderstand.

these people, these fora (i'm speaking longtime, here) have always been respectful of people's sexual orientations.


my daughter says to blame a tv show called South Park for the ... what she calls "brat acceptance" of homophobic language. it's like the author's joke got perverted. i dunno; i've never seen it.

i've also been told that kids say "oh no, it's not homophobic to neg something by saying it's gay; that just means it's lame". ok.. lame is pretty crappy to hear, too.. if you are truly lamed. that just implies that being gay is synonymous with being somehow imperfect, which is BS.

many of us have kids. approximately 10% of them will be gay in some way. none of them will be lame or useless or wrong, unless you tell them they are.



i really really REALLY don't think there is any rampant homophobia here, but i do see the creep of anti-gay slang into the language we use.





i'm working on getting "lame" out of my vocabulary.


respect, my friends. could we talk about this?

can you expand on that, chris?

my experience, and that of the people around me is different, but i only know what i know, and it's a great big world.

if people who are homosexual are allowed to use that word in such a way, then everyone else is too

as you can see the meaning of the word "gay" has evolved over the years. i guess it's evolving again.

chris said...if people who are homosexual are allowed to use that word in such a way, then everyone else is too

there's no way that I will ever use the word "nigger" though, even though African-Americans use it among themselves. The word "nigger" has a completely different history.

IF somebody used the term hetero to describe something rubbish I would not be offended.

Gay / ghey / ghay as a term for something rubbish is also used by my gay friends.

I am not homophobic or racist.

there's no way that I will ever use the word "nigger" though, even though African-Americans use it among themselves. The word "nigger" has a completely different history.

does it?

it's another word used to marginalize and belittle and separate.

i, personally, like "homo" better than "queer" or "gay", because i like the words queer and gay, and have to not use them sometimes when it seems like the perfect word.

ideally, there'd be no question of needing a special designation for any of the 5 known "sexes" (possibly more), unless you were seeking a mate.

but i do agree that 'casual slang can seem homophobic on the internets'

nicko, i know you're not homophobic or racist, but in an online forum, using certain forms of language can have that appearance.

people cruise this site all the time. if the language we use gives us the appearance of not being gay-friendly, then possibly we miss out on a new member or contributor.

i get it, my friends, that you feel like i'm over-thinking this.

but.... i've felt it, and had to remind myself who was speaking and what i know about them. others who know you or me less well can only read and take the words at face value.

mick said...people cruise this site all the time.

hehe

I do get upset when people are racist towards my wife... however, they are people who generally don't know her.

what chris said

nicko said...what chris said

you may want to watch out - i edited

elliott-20 said...holy shit it took me 20 minutes to write that post and look what happens

maybe if you were normal-handed would have been able to type quicker

it makes sense though, for sure.

(bravo,elliot-20)(By and large I am with you on nearly all points in your post)

And that will be that for my entry into this discuss.

I meant IRL mick, but yeah... I agree

respect, elliot, but i disagree.

it doesn't serve to make being gay more acceptable, it just makes it more acceptable to call things or people gay, in a negative way.

gay can be both positive and negative.

chris said...

elliott-20 said...holy shit it took me 20 minutes to write that post and look what happens

maybe if you were normal-handed would have been able to type quicker

nice

I don't know if my contribution will help to keep this discussion somewhat on track, but I have a good friend that cracks heterosexual jokes ... he is gay, in case you wonder.

In my opinion that is a good way of re-appropriation in the sense that if you can have homosexuals as subjects/targets of jokes you might as well make jokes about the heterosexuals in turn.

hm, ok, that was kinda random and confusing without context. But I think it (marginally) ties in with the discussion about using "nigger" and "gay" in different contexts and how it might feel being called that and knowing about the connotations. I don't care for heterosexual jokes, but I don't crack gay jokes either, like I don't indulge in general racist jokes (like jokes involving jews or blondes for that matter – though I have a higher tolerance for blondes jokes )

about 10% of all males are homosexual. in a restaurant there are 26 men, how many of them are gay?
two of them are gay, the other 24 don't know yet.

Two nations divided by a common language
And about 200 years of new songs and dances
but the difference is language
and just the bits you got wrong
cuz we were the ones who invented the language.

What? People can be dicks to other people on the internet?

No. No way.

homonyms FTW!

(did you see what I did there?)

I'm with chris, here (and those who said similar things). Nobody has the right to use those words, and I do my part by not using them (with the exception of this thread, ahem ).

I don't like the word 'nigger' just like I don't like the word 'cracker' (at least, when it's used with racial undertones). Frankly, it's not the word, it's the intent behind saying the word...as elliott said above.

Every time someone from a particular group uses a word like that, it reminds me of that scene from Rush Hour, the first one...Chris Tucker goes into a bar, and says "What's up, my nigga?". Then, Jackie Chan, playing a character completely new to the western world, does the same, and they kick his ass.

Well, they would kick his ass, except that he's Jackie Chan.